Across The Margin’s GOT Guru returns to answer the most pressing questions revolving around House of The Dragon Season 2…
by: Geoffrey M. Golia (aka — ATM’s #GOTGuru) and Michael Shields
ATM: We are back at it! Thank you for your time and insight as always. We need to start with the misunderstanding that really lies at the heart of this Civil War. I would love to hear your take on how Alicent’s account of what she heard (or what she thought she heard) as Vicerys was passing away has led to all of this. It seems as if she realized her error in her secret, candlelit meeting with Rhaenyra. Is that the case? Does she have regrets? Is there no turning black?
GOT Guru: First of all, it’s awesome to be back! I had such a blast writing and discussing Game of Thrones with Across the Margin what feels like ages ago, and I am thrilled to analyze, theorize, and talk a little shit about one of the most consequential — and foreboding — periods in both Westerosi and Targaryen history. So let’s get confused and sad!
Let’s also be clear that we’re principally discussing the HBO series and not the various written histories of the Dance of the Dragons, which can be found in the novellas, “The Princess and the Queen” and “The Rogue Prince,” the epic history of the Targaryens, “Fire & Blood,” among other material. As we all know, television shows deviate, sometimes wildly, from the original texts and a dogmatic emphasis on “well, in the books …” won’t be any fun here. I may mention some of the source material during this conversation, but will seek to focus on the series.
It’s plausible that Alicent heard what she wanted to hear in Viserys’ dying words; like a credulous audience member at a cold reading, she ignores the things that don’t match her predetermined goal and focuses deeply on what does. We have the benefit of knowing that he was referring to Aegon the Conqueror’s dream of the epic battle of “Ice and Fire” and, of course, of the future Aegon known familiarly as Jon Snow. But Alicent, deeply focused on the ascendency of her line and caught up in her moral judgments of Rhaenrya’s lifestyle choices (along with the behavior and parentage of her children), interprets Viserys’ words to sanction her her son Aegon’s usurpation of the throne. There seems to be an honest conviction in her voice when she says, “I understand, my king” before leaving her husband to die alone, but her being convinced is not evidence that Viserys, who many times affirmed his daughter, Rhaenyra’s claim, changed his mind.
There is a lesson here, by the way, on naming conventions. While the books and the series often force us to pause for cross referencing and clarification — ”which Aegon?,” “Is he Aemon or Aemond or Daemon?,” “Wait, two blonde ladies whose names are Rhaenys and Rhaenrya?!” — this confusion bleeds into the story, as the lack of creativity often found in royal dynasties like that of the Targaryens regarding names leads not just to a civil war for dynastic succession but the Planetos version of a global conflict that kills thousands while decimating one of the magical wonders of that universe: cool and dangerous dragons with mystical connections to humans.
Fast forward to the encounter at the Great Sept between Alicent and Rhaenyra. Despite her defiance at the end of the meeting regarding Rhaenrya’s convincing explanation that Viserys’ was referencing Aegon the Conqueror and not her “feckless son” on his deathbed, it’s clear that Alicent is, in the words of the youth, “shook.” Building on her growing realization that Aegon II basically just sucks, you can see the seeds being planted that eventually cause her to abdicate her position and responsibility as the inertia of the conflict she contributed to spins out of control.
ATM: We lost an absolute goddess this season in Princess Rhaenys (we love you Eve Best!). Can you help us pay tribute to our favorite character in HOD by rounding out our knowledge about her backstory and maybe speculating what would have been if she rightfully got her just-deserved shine?
GOT GURU: Pour one out of Meleys too. Rhaenys’ story is a vital thread in the story of the Dance of the Dragons, laying out many of the foundational issues that contributed to the war and the eventual decline of Targaryen power and prestige.
“The Queen Who Never Was” was the daughter of Prince Aemon Targaryen, son of King Jaehaerys, known as “The Conciliator” (48 – 103 AC). This moniker speaks to a capacity for thoughtfulness that, while creating the conditions for a long period of peace and stability for the realm, also indicated a kind of rigidity around procedures which emphasized logic over emotional attachment. This expressed itself in the issue of succession that arose twice during his reign, which is kind of what you get for living so long as a monarch.
The long and short is that his son, Aemon, was his acknowledged heir which kinda, sorta made Rhaenys, Aemon’s only child with Jocelyn Baratheon, his heir. When Aemon died unexpectedly at the hands of Myrish scouts on the island of Tarth — remember Brienne?! — a succession crisis emerged because, well, sexism. Typically the child of the heir, not the brother of the heir, would become the next in line for the throne but Rhaenys was a female and Westeros had the gender politics of J.D. Vance and so Aemon’s younger brother and Rhaenys uncle, Baelon, became next in line to the throne. I just want to note that Rhaenys wasn’t a child when this happened; she was 18, married, and expecting her first child. I also want to add that Baelon was not an asshole; he was generally a cool and respected dude and rode Vhagar — no slouch.
This snubbing pissed off a lot of important people, including Rhaenys husband, Corlys Velaryon, and Jaehaerys’ wife, Good Queen Alysanne, and caused some minor scandals at court. Things improved after that, despite continued misgivings from the Sea Snake and other Rhaenys supporters, and a sense of normalcy returned.
And then it happened again
Baelor died of appendicitis about 9 years later — yes, appendicitis, I shit you not. The Conciliator decided that, rather than right the wrong of the last succession decision, he would call a Great Council at Harrenhal to decide the matter and, in doing so, set some precedent for the laws of royal succession. While there is political wisdom in this, as a council made up of nearly everyone who matters in Westeros making this decision would create a sense of both legitimacy and loyalty for the new heir, it also smacks of the Conciliator, who didn’t attend, abdicating his responsibility as king to make this decision and push the Overton Window in favor gender equality.
The decision ultimately came down to two claimants: Laenor Velaryon, Rhaeys’ son (and future husband to Rhaenrya) and Viserys Targaryen, the first son of Baelon. And we know how that ended up.
And then it kind of happened again only a little differently.
Aemma Arryn, now King Viserys’ wife, dies in 105 AC and Rhaenys’ daughter, Laena, is put forth as a potential bride. What a great opportunity to bring these two rival branches together and heal some intergenerational family trauma! But, as is nearly always the case in a pre-psychotherapy world, Viserys declines in favor of Alicent, once again snubbing The Queen Who Never Was and her proud and powerful family. This is like early-90s Buffalo Bills territory here. Wide right, indeed.
Rhaenys is a person shaped by tragedy and trauma but not defined or limited by them. While deeply objecting to the rejection of her claim and the claims of her children, she maintained loyalty to Viserys. And it makes sense that she would support and ultimately give her life for Rhaenyra’s claim given the parallels to her own. A tough lady who likely would have made a good queen in her own right; something that I’m not sure we can say about Rhaenyra.
ATM: Daemon’s time in Harrenhal has been interesting, and often psychedelic, to say the least. He certainly feels it is of utmost importance to obtain the swords of all the River Houses. How vital is this strategically that he would dedicate (a season) so much time to?
GOT GURU: Daemon’s Harrenhal vision quest is just one stream on the megalomaniacal delta of his life. Knighted at 16, wielder of the sword Dark Sister, and rider of Caraxes, Daemon was a renowned warrior, Commander of the City Watch (who became known as the Gold Cloaks under his management and patronage), and became the self-styled King of the Stepstones. Dude was his own worst enemy in a way, making enemies from King’s Landing through to Lys, Pentos, Myr, and beyond. And while we all likely enjoyed and cheered for his eventual fealty to Queen Rhaenyra during her unannounced visit to Harrenhal, his seething ambition for the crown, pathological narcissism, especially vis-a-vis women, and contract killing of a toddler, certainly diminish his stature.
The Riverlands are both strategically important, as we learned from The War of the Five Kings, and tend to bear the brunt of Westerosi wars, as they are the nexus point of the key regions of the kingdom. In this case, the Riverlords represent the only force that can reasonably check the alliance of regional houses that support the Greens: the Lannister host coming from the Westerlands, the Hightower (and, one would assume, Tyrell) hosts coming from The Reach, and Criston Cole’s army engaged in battle in the Crownlands. The North, loyal to Rhaenyra and Rhaenys’ claim before her, are in a good position to link up with the Riverlords who have affirmed their previous oath to support Rhaenyra, and create a land force necessary to secure the Seven Kingdoms for the Blacks.
It is fortunate for his wife, the Queen, that Daemon, seemingly through the magical intervention of Alys Rivers (who, in the books, is a Greens-supported and lover of Aemond, not Daemon, by the way), is able to humble himself to correct his grievous errors around the Blackwood atrocities and deliver not just an army (and not his army) but Rhaenyra’s army to her.
ATM: To follow up, what is he on and can you tell us more about what Alys is up to? (Also I heard that Ramsay Snow (Bolton) might be a descendant of Alys…any truth to this?). On that note…are there any other relatives of famed GOT characters that are in play that many of us more lay-fans might be missing, or any relatives that might be coming into play?
GOT GURU: From what I can gather, it seems like the fan theory that claims Ramsay Snow-Bolton is a descendant of Alys Rivers is based on similarities between the actors who play the characters, Iwan Rheon and Gayle Rankin, respectively, as well as the sadistic and sociopathic nature of each character. And while Ramsay’s nature was on full display in the GoT televisions series, we only have hints of Alys’ dark side from her intervention with the elderly Lord Tully, leading to the ascension of his grandson as Lord of Riverrun and Lord Paramount of the Trident, which solved the Daemon’s stalemate in that region. The books paint a much darker picture, as rather than facilitating Daemon’s vision quest and allowing him to be of better service to Rhaenyra, Alys ends up hooking up with Aemond, siring what she claims is his child, and becoming something of an enemy-torturing Witch-queen whose fate is ultimately unknown.
It’s difficult to say what her intentions are in the show. Maybe it’s BRAT GIRL SUMMER for her all year round, as she seems to embody a kind of Charli XCX aesthetic, wielding freedom, agency, and pseudo-gothy vibes to lend support to what seems like the correct political cause.
ATM: We have a question that is going to come out of left field some, but is there a chance we will see Melisandre? think she was around 400 years old Game of Thrones so I think that math checks out….
GOT GURU: The show has offered some deviations from the plot of the books, so not sure what is in store in the next season and who may show up. The source material for House of the Dragon does not include Melisandre or, to my memory, any other characters from GoT. However, the weirwood montage did include some cool cameos, from Dany and her dragons to Bloodraven as the Three-eyed Crow. Always nice to see old friends, no?
ATM: As we arrived at the penultimate episode, the legitimacy and qualifications of dragon riders became a crucial, or THE, most crucial part of the season. It felt as though some of the riders earned that role (Addam of Hull getting chased down by a frisky Sea Smoke, Hugh Hammer just being a badass), while others didn’t seem all too dragon-eligible (looking at you Ulf running your mouth at the pub). What can you tell us about these three and their claim and rights to their dragons? And how brave/bold (or dumb) is it for Rhaenyra to trust these small folk (“mongrels” as her skeptical son calls them) with the dragons and raise “an army of bastards”?
GOT GURU: In the books, the notion of seeking out “dragonseed” to claim the dragons is less controversial than it is in the show. There is a measure of pragmatism to the decision; despite the risks associated with empowering others, including smallfolk, with the most powerful weapons in the world and deeply potent symbols of Targaryen power and mystique, Rhaenyra needs to match the power of the Greens, which is principally their land army and resources. It’s difficult to maintain a sense of purity if you lose the war and your head.
The show uses this plot point as a way to highlight Jacaerys Velaryon’s feelings of insecurity regarding his parentage. His royal status is his only protection against the accusations of bastardy and, thus, illegitimacy. And this isn’t theoretical; part of the Greens’ argument for Aegon II’s legitimacy and the resultant global conflict is buttressed by their perception that Rhaenyra is morally unfit since three of her children, including her heir, are the illegitimate off-spring of Ser Harwin Strong. While not tied to personal insecurities, the walk out of the International Union of Dragonkeepers (Local 234) did speak to a dogmatic adherence to the idea that dragonriders had to have some air of legitimacy and nobility, if not royalty. (As an aside, their collective bargaining agreement left a lot to be desired as no effective trade union would tolerate so many workers being burned alive on such a consistent basis.)
Now, I won’t provide any spoilers here; the fate of the dragonseed and their impact on the war is essential to the plot…and also may deviate from the books. But we can already see some themes emerge around their personalities and capacity to adapt to their new roles. Hugh the Hammer is demonstrating a kind of salt of the earth, working class hero archetype who, nevertheless, has the self-awareness to read the room, especially in the company of royalty. We can forgive Hugh some moments of misbehavior, like utterly dominating that dude in King’s Landing and stealing his groceries, as we can sympathize with the level of desperation he was experiencing. Will he maintain this posture throughout the war?
Ulf just sucks, honestly. There was a sense he might be a sympathetic character when he was a regular at the King Landing version of Cheers — is he Cliff? Al? I don’t know; I never actually watched Cheers, despite a HUGE crush of Kirstie Alley, don’t @ me. Who knows what Silverwing sees in him.
While Ulf knew who his dad was — the aforementioned Baelon, son of Jaehaerys, father of Viserys I — he didn’t seem to have any interactions with him. Addam of Hull, on the other hand, had to experience being consistently ignored and unrecognized by his dad, Corlys Velaryon. It’s true that he didn’t harbor the level of animosity and resentment that we saw from Alyn — and good for him, by the way — but Addam still longed for the security, privileges, and prestige associated with nobility. Dragons are not judges of fine character, as we’ve seen from some of the absolute douches who’ve been dragonriders; who, exactly did Seasmoke raise up from obscurity? I suppose we’ll see.
Martin and the showrunners are not romantics. They do not lionize the inherent wisdom, goodness, or virtue of any group, be they the smallfolk, nobility, royalty, or whomever in-between. Martin’s work is about the inherent tensions and contradictions that exist in a stratified society and within the hearts of each member of that society. While some are more virtuous than others, all have flaws of character and judgment. Which is also a commentary on ourselves — how do we maintain dignity, integrity, and goodness in a world where we often lack agency and control? And, to answer your point more directly, is it no more foolish to trust a member of the smallfolk than to trust, say, someone like Ser Alfred Broome?
ATM: If it wasn’t answered in the previous question, Is the smallfolk’s involvement setting the scene for different types of people, different families, who can now believe their lot in life can be different? Who now believe they can have power…say reigning over Kings Landing one day? Is this the start of a sea change?
GOT GURU: The elevation of certain smallfolk and non-nobility to dragonriders is strategically and politically expedient for Rhaenyra. And, yes, it does represent a significant improvement in the lives of those who are raised…though, I mean, they do risk death and whatnot taking a lead role in the actual fighting, but they see that as a calculated risk with a potentially huge payoff). But these isolated cases don’t evidence a change in the social order in Westeros. This is due to the stagnation inherent in the feudal society of Westeros: different rulers may emerge, loyalties can shift, but society remains rigidly stratified.
Interestingly enough, you can find examples of something resembling a more meritocratic order in the Free Cities of Essos, where ordinary people can build immense fortunes, influence politics, or stay out of it. Still, these societies also have both extreme class stratification and, with a few exceptions, still practice slavery.
There are some examples of noble families of Westeros where one branch has more political power and prestige, but another branch has more wealth due to engaging in commercial activities. You see this in the Vale of Arryn, where a cadet branch of that House, based in Gulltown, amassed more wealth due to marrying merchants and trade. In European history, the emergence of a merchant class was an important factor in the transition from the feudal order, in which power and wealth was held by the king and feudal lords, to a more modern system where non-nobility could engage in trade and thus build wealth and political power to counter the monarchy and nobility.
Perhaps the examples from Essos and the Vale point to that same development in the Weserosi arc of history.
ATM: Tyland Lannister had quite the time courting the good people / pirates of Essos, can you tell what you know about him that would make him prepared for all the wives he is going to have to…meet? And what can you tell us about his new traveling companion?
GOT GURU: Tyland treating with the Triarchy was a nice note of levity in a veritable sea of carnage and misery, right down to the mud wrestling…which I remember being something of a common thing, growing up in the 80s. Just lots and lots of mud-wrestling in movies and on TV, all the time.
Tyland is there to make an alliance with Triarchy — in the books, Otto Hightower initiates the alliance, for what it’s worth. The Triarchy is itself a military alliance of three of the Free Cities: Mry, Lys, and Tyrosh, the first two of which remind me of those weird names folks out west give their kids. What region do House Thayly and House Lakyn hale from? The Triarchy, already bitter enemies of Rhaenyra’s faction and particularly Daemon and the Sea Snake, are the only force who can expediently break the Velaryon blockade of King’s Landing, opening up trade and access to food and other resources, and generally challenge the Blacks’ naval supremacy.
Tyland in the show appears somewhat inept and out of his depth, particularly in the areas of court intrigue and power politics. The only thing he really has to offer is access to wealth and the alliance of his House to the Greens. The books paint a more competent and shrewd picture of him, and his life takes some traumatic and dramatic turns. And he does end up in Essos at some point, though not securing the alliance with the Triarchy, but seeking sellswords and others to aid Aegon II’s war effort. But, even as someone of wealth and unearned privilege, the Tyland of the show is a nice looking man and, when pressed, can beat up a Lyseni pirate, so he has that going for him. Your guess is as good as mine whether he has the capacity to address Admiral Sharako Lohar’s provocative request!
In the books, Admiral Lohar is a Lyseni man and something of a consequential figure with respect to the Triarchy’s allegiance with the Greens and, some time later, the conflict that shatters the Triarchy. But, alas, his love life is not reported on. Admiral Lohar in House of the Dragon is female but has found a level of equality with the male leadership of the Triarchy, not to mention a ton of loyalty from the men who serve under her. I’ve read that some of the more colorful characteristics are borrowed from another character from the books, Racallio Ryndoon, a Tyroshi mariner with 12 wives. So she is a bit of an amalgamation and there’s not a lot to go on in terms of what we can expect from her. My hope would be for some epic high jinks and pranks at Tyland’s expense; we clearly have the potential for a comic duo, even while hyper realistic violence explodes on the screen in the upcoming battles.
ATM: So, what is the over/under on characters we have come to know and/or love being burned to death next year?
GOT GURU: To some extent, that is contingent on pacing. So many people are going to die, or be burned to death, or tortured, or maimed before this war is over. And while I’ve tried to avoid specific spoilers, the Dance of the Dragons really represents the death of the dragons and with that, the diminution of the power and prestige of House Targaryen. The Stranger comes for us all, Mr. Shields. Until then, let’s watch some fucking dragons fight in HD.
Listen to Across The Margin’s Got Guru on the House of the Dragon, Season 2 episode of Welcome To The Party Pal on Spotify or Apple Podcasts!
